18:00:18 <lwade> #startmeeting Community Documentation Project, 01/02/2012
18:00:18 <eucabot|test> Meeting started Wed Feb  1 18:00:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is lwade. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:18 <eucabot|test> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:22 <lwade> oh great :)
18:00:34 <lwade> #meetingname docsproject
18:00:34 <eucabot|test> The meeting name has been set to 'docsproject'
18:01:10 <lwade> righto :)
18:01:21 <lwade> #topic Roll Call ! <dong>
18:01:28 * shaon waves
18:01:29 <lwade> Hello everyone
18:01:36 * jeevan_ullas_ is here
18:02:08 <lwade> great
18:02:14 <lwade> gregdek will be late today
18:02:17 <lwade> as will a few others
18:02:50 <lwade> will give another min or so
18:02:53 <lwade> whilst I get some windows opened
18:03:14 <jeevan_ullas_> sure
18:03:22 <lwade> #topic general notices; eucaTV merge and anything else
18:04:10 <lwade> ok, so lets get started
18:04:31 <lwade> so, you may have seen the msg to the lists but the eucaTV project is being merged into this one
18:04:42 <lwade> #info EucaTV merging into docs project, see EucaTV here: https://projects.eucalyptus.com/redmine/projects/eucatv
18:04:56 <lwade> for the moment, we'll keep them seperate but new feature requests will go into the docs project
18:05:07 <lwade> #info new EucaTV issues, please put into the doc project pages
18:05:25 <lwade> it would be good to rattle through open issues here
18:05:32 * lwade looks at them
18:05:35 <lwade> there are quite a few
18:05:45 <lwade> #info current EucaTV issues: https://projects.eucalyptus.com/redmine/projects/eucatv/issues
18:05:52 <lwade> infact, there are lots
18:06:13 <lwade> I'm going to suggest that we look transition some of these into the docs list
18:06:29 <lwade> which we can turn into articles and THEN video/record/whatever
18:06:48 <lwade> would anyone like to take an action for moving these across and then flagging ones which might need discussion?
18:06:58 <lwade> otherwise I'm happy to
18:07:16 <lwade> ok
18:07:30 <lwade> #action lwade to sort through the issues list in EucaTV and migrate where appropriate.  Flagging others for future discussion.
18:08:16 <lwade> I'll consult with gregdek on how he wants it layed out but I think rolling it into the same project as docs makes sense, although maybe its subproject, we'll see...
18:08:36 <lwade> #info currently only two tickets, both assigned to eucaeducation
18:08:41 <lwade> aka Jason ;)
18:08:55 <lwade> lets leave those and skip passed them until I can spend some time sorting through
18:08:58 <lwade> so
18:09:08 <lwade> #topic Docs Project - Open Issues, Status Update
18:09:16 <lwade> down to the docs project tickets and open issues
18:09:31 <lwade> lots of activity I hear and see, which is cool
18:09:33 <lwade> thanks for that
18:09:48 <jeevan_ullas_> yay!
18:09:56 <lwade> lets move down the list from newest :)
18:10:02 <shaon> +1
18:10:25 <lwade> #info ticket 139
18:10:35 <lwade> oops
18:10:38 <lwade> #topic ticket 139
18:10:45 <lwade> actually, what's the syntax here? :S
18:10:47 <lwade> I've forgotten
18:11:25 <jeevan_ullas_> .ticket 139
18:11:25 * shaon doesn't know :P
18:11:30 <lwade> ah that's it
18:11:32 <lwade> ty jeevan_ullas
18:11:35 <lwade> .ticket 139
18:11:37 <jeevan_ullas_> nope
18:11:40 <lwade> oh
18:11:42 <jeevan_ullas_> #ticket 139
18:11:43 <lwade> it rang a bell
18:11:45 <lwade> lol
18:11:46 <lwade> #ticket 139
18:11:48 <jeevan_ullas_> lol
18:11:50 <lwade> rofl
18:11:57 <shaon> #139
18:12:00 <lwade> #139
18:12:23 <jeevan_ullas_> .proj 139
18:12:24 <eucabot|test> jeevan_ullas_: Issue 139 (New): ARTICLE: LVM-backed base EMI - https://projects.eucalyptus.com/issues/139
18:12:29 <lwade> wooo
18:12:30 <lwade> nice one
18:12:32 <lwade> #chair jeevan_ullas
18:12:32 <eucabot|test> Current chairs: jeevan_ullas lwade
18:12:34 <lwade> lol
18:12:39 <lwade> ok, 139!
18:12:52 <lwade> #info lwade cruely assigned this to jeevan_ullas ;)
18:13:10 <lwade> you expressed an interest in working through monolive's document
18:13:17 <shaon> jeevan_ullas_ nice ya :D
18:13:20 <lwade> any update on that, I guess not, just starting ?
18:13:24 <jeevan_ullas_> yes
18:13:28 <lwade> thanks for taking it tho :)
18:13:36 <jeevan_ullas_> you are welcome , its great stuf
18:13:38 <jeevan_ullas_> stuff
18:13:41 <jeevan_ullas_> thanks to monolive
18:13:43 <lwade> yeah for sure
18:13:54 <lwade> #info kudos to monolive for his preliminary doc contribs
18:13:58 <lwade> shoutout ;)
18:14:05 <lwade> ok, will rattle through the others
18:14:12 <lwade> .proj 138
18:14:12 <hspencer> mornin
18:14:12 <eucabot|test> lwade: Issue 138 (New): ARTICLE: BoxGrinder for Image Creation - https://projects.eucalyptus.com/issues/138
18:14:20 <lwade> hey hspencer
18:14:27 <hspencer> lwade
18:14:28 <lwade> this one is assigned to me
18:14:31 <hspencer> that issue
18:14:42 <hspencer> i sent a link to images@lists.eucalyptus.com
18:14:47 <hspencer> of what olivier did
18:14:51 <hspencer> he discussed that
18:14:58 <hspencer> has docs on it
18:14:59 <lwade> for #139 ?
18:15:04 <hspencer> 138
18:15:12 <lwade> ok great, we have his base doc
18:15:16 <hspencer> yep
18:15:27 <hspencer> and both 139
18:15:40 <hspencer> i didn't see what 139 was
18:15:42 <hspencer> had to scroll up
18:15:44 <hspencer> but yes
18:15:45 <lwade> #info monolive contributed documents for .proj 138 and .proj 139
18:15:54 <hspencer> both have been sent to images@lists.eucalyptus.com
18:15:55 <lwade> did you want to add anything into them?
18:16:03 <lwade> or do you have a master plan for them as part of something bigger?
18:16:03 <hspencer> docs shared on docs.eucalyptus.com
18:16:11 <hspencer> i added the copyright information
18:16:12 <hspencer> thats it
18:16:35 <hspencer> its should be part of a living document that talks about image management
18:17:00 <lwade> could that be in an article which is exported to somewhere?
18:17:11 <lwade> or perhaps we could host a wiki for it, then export it to an article ?
18:17:12 <hspencer> not sure, don't see why not
18:17:14 <hspencer> yep
18:17:20 * gholms is still in another meeting; may be slow to respond
18:17:25 <jeevan_ullas_> gholms: welcome
18:17:26 <hspencer> are you part of the images@lists.eucalyptus.com
18:17:27 <lwade> np gholms
18:17:31 <hspencer> hi gholms
18:17:36 <lwade> I requested membership a while back but not approved
18:17:42 <lwade> (a couple of days back I think)
18:17:47 <hspencer> you should just be able to join
18:17:53 <hspencer> there is no approva
18:17:57 <lwade> maybe I missed the reply
18:17:57 <hspencer> approval
18:17:59 <hspencer> yea
18:18:06 <lwade> #action lwade to check his head and see if he is on images list
18:18:22 <lwade> ok so perhaps those docs can live on the wiki in images project
18:18:26 <lwade> is the images proj on github @
18:18:28 <lwade> ?
18:18:51 <hspencer> i think so
18:18:52 <hspencer> hold on
18:18:57 <lwade> jeevan_ullas, would you be ok to work the doc into the wiki section of redmine and then copy/paste into user portal ?
18:19:19 <jeevan_ullas_> lwade: redmine wiki sucks
18:19:23 <jeevan_ullas_> literally
18:19:26 <lwade> lol
18:19:29 <lwade> right
18:19:31 <lwade> ok how about this
18:19:37 <lwade> we start it in the kbase / user portal
18:19:38 <gholms> literally (adj): figuratively
18:19:45 <hspencer> yes, the images is a repo on github
18:19:47 <hspencer> has scripts
18:19:49 <lwade> eventually we link from kbase to github or somewhere
18:19:52 <gholms> s/adj/adv/
18:20:04 * lwade is not familiar with github
18:20:15 <jeevan_ullas_> ok. but i am not sure if that will work
18:20:17 <lwade> also, I think this relates to gholms plan for some kind of FAQ
18:20:35 <lwade> #info potential issue with some of these cookbooks and flexibility of user portal
18:20:44 <lwade> hrrm
18:20:45 <jeevan_ullas_> yeah we need to talk about the FAQ
18:20:59 <lwade> ok, lets park this actually and rattle through the other issues, then come back to it
18:21:07 <jeevan_ullas_> ok
18:21:07 <lwade> along with FAQ
18:21:12 <lwade> so
18:21:24 <lwade> .proj 137
18:21:25 <eucabot|test> lwade: Issue 137 (In Progress): ARTICLE:  Managing EBS Volumes / How-to - https://projects.eucalyptus.com/issues/137
18:21:34 <lwade> I had this action
18:21:40 <lwade> it's 90% complete on the user portal
18:21:55 <jeevan_ullas_> i am waiting to see that one getting completed. really good article
18:22:01 <lwade> #info Issue 137 is ~ 90% complete, resides on user portal
18:22:19 <lwade> thanks jeevan_ullas
18:22:30 <lwade> ok, lets carry on to the new one
18:22:41 <lwade> .proj 107
18:22:42 <eucabot|test> lwade: Issue 107 (Feedback): Unveil new portal  - https://projects.eucalyptus.com/issues/107
18:22:57 <lwade> dstagnaro uneveiled the new portal last week, which was good
18:22:57 <gholms> May I see it? :)
18:22:59 <lwade> thanks for that
18:23:01 <lwade> ok
18:23:02 <lwade> 1 sec:
18:23:13 <lwade> https://engage.eucalyptus.com/
18:23:21 <lwade> warning: appearance to change
18:23:43 <lwade> gholms, note its a knowledge base but also with a customer service backend
18:24:09 <lwade> but main focus is around the kbase articles and Q&A
18:24:11 <gholms> I can't see that, so that doesn't really matter too much to me. ;)
18:24:26 <lwade> ;)
18:24:32 <lwade> feedback is very welcome
18:24:40 <lwade> so if you have some major bug bears with it, lets us know
18:24:45 <lwade> dstagnaro is going to blog on this
18:24:50 <lwade> I need to bother him for that
18:24:54 * gregdek hullos. Sorry I'm late.
18:24:54 * gholms has a small suggestion
18:24:59 * gregdek reads back.
18:25:10 <lwade> #action dstagnaro to blog on new user portal, lwade to create ticket
18:25:14 <lwade> hi gregdek, np
18:25:17 <lwade> shoot gholms
18:25:28 <shaon> hello gregdek
18:25:49 <gholms> Stop putting dark blue text on a green background that is that saturated.
18:25:52 <lwade> LOL
18:26:04 * lwade chuckles
18:26:24 <lwade> ok, so corporate branding will come into play here
18:26:35 <lwade> web team will deal with that in near future after revamping all the other stuff
18:26:50 <gregdek> ok, /me is caught up.
18:26:56 <lwade> tbh I'm not really sure what the colour scheme will look like but all that will change, as with links n that kinda stuff
18:27:14 <lwade> #info portal to get a make-over before going "live", web team will handle this after working on all the other new web stuff
18:27:22 <gholms> Thankfully there are more than two colours.
18:27:31 <lwade> yeah, a few more
18:27:32 <lwade> like orange
18:27:34 <lwade> everyone loves orange
18:27:51 <gholms> Not to mention the fact that the title doesn't *have* to go on a coloured background.
18:27:54 <gholms> But whatever.
18:28:20 <lwade> lets trundle on through the tickets
18:28:32 <lwade> #action lwade to close #107
18:28:40 <lwade> .proj 106
18:28:51 <eucabot|test> lwade: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot\'s administrator for more information.
18:28:55 <gholms> :(
18:29:01 <lwade> oops, did I break eucabot
18:29:04 <lwade> .proj 106
18:29:05 <eucabot|test> lwade: Issue 106 (In Progress): Check with web team for any analytics data on popular articles/forum-posts on old site - https://projects.eucalyptus.com/issues/106
18:29:07 <lwade> ok
18:29:08 <lwade> phew
18:29:13 <gregdek> :)
18:29:19 <lwade> ok, dstagnaro isn't here, so lets skip
18:29:22 <gregdek> eucabot is resilient.
18:29:24 <gholms> Good ol' httpd
18:29:59 <jeevan_ullas_> again i guess web team is all occupied so makes sense to keep that one on hold
18:30:00 <lwade> .proj 105
18:30:01 <eucabot|test> lwade: Issue 105 (In Progress): Create article content:  Manual Install of Eucalyptus on Ubuntu - https://projects.eucalyptus.com/issues/105
18:30:05 <lwade> yup jeevan_ullas
18:30:14 <lwade> #action lwade to update Issue 106 with dstagnaro
18:30:20 <lwade> ooooh, this is shaon
18:30:36 <lwade> so, shaon has his super-duper UEC guide which we could re-use
18:30:37 <shaon> lwade: it's done
18:31:03 <lwade> ok, so may I suggest you attach it to the ticket, and perhaps jeevan_ullas you can format for the kbase ?
18:31:20 <jeevan_ullas_> sure i can do that.
18:31:25 <lwade> thanks man
18:31:26 <shaon> I attached the link as you suggested
18:31:34 <lwade> oh yes, I see
18:31:43 <lwade> #action jeevan_ullas to work with shaon on getting that into the kbase
18:31:50 <jeevan_ullas_> http://mdshaonimran.wordpress.com/2012/01/25/eucalyptus-manual-installation/
18:31:53 <jeevan_ullas_> got that
18:32:03 <jeevan_ullas_> ok so q
18:32:06 <lwade> thanks shaon!
18:32:17 <jeevan_ullas_> does kbase support syntax highlighting ?
18:32:19 <jeevan_ullas_> for code stuff
18:32:24 <lwade> yes, apparently
18:32:27 <shaon> wc :)
18:32:30 <lwade> but I'm yet to see the nice button to turn that on
18:32:32 <lwade> dstagnaro knows
18:32:43 <jeevan_ullas_> we will bug dstagnaro than
18:33:01 <lwade> #action lwade and jeevan_ullas to bug dstagnaro about code snippets in kbase articles
18:33:20 <lwade> super
18:33:21 <lwade> so
18:33:24 <jeevan_ullas_> oh man its so confusing something is on github something on launchpad
18:33:29 <lwade> absolutely
18:33:34 <jeevan_ullas_> something on red mine and then now kbase
18:33:44 <lwade> redmine, github, launchpad, portal, bla
18:34:01 <lwade> anyhow, we digress, perhaps that is town hall I think
18:34:05 <lwade> ok, next ticket
18:34:07 <lwade> .proj 104
18:34:08 <eucabot|test> lwade: Issue 104 (In Progress): Scan the forum for article candidates (perhaps sticky threads) - https://projects.eucalyptus.com/issues/104
18:34:17 <jeevan_ullas_> ok i updated this one a bit today
18:34:20 <lwade> jeevan_ullas has been doing a really good job here
18:34:31 <lwade> along with keeping the peace on the forums
18:34:47 <jeevan_ullas_> we need to get those pictures i heard dstagnaro saying internally we are working on something
18:35:02 <jeevan_ullas_> for the various networking modes in eucalyptus to help a newbie understand better
18:35:09 <lwade> the architectural pics?
18:35:09 <jeevan_ullas_> networking modes occupy most of our forums
18:35:25 <jeevan_ullas_> not architectural as such but something
18:35:25 <lwade> yes, networking is the topic which really needs some attention
18:35:31 <jeevan_ullas_> which easily explains the modes. the networking
18:35:38 <lwade> it's very common across the board
18:35:42 <lwade> do you know who is leading that?
18:35:42 <jeevan_ullas_> probably someone like hspencer can review it
18:35:47 <lwade> hspencer is the man here
18:35:50 <jeevan_ullas_> dstagnaro might be knowing
18:35:54 * lwade is so tempted to assign an article to hspencer
18:36:02 <jeevan_ullas_> yeah go for it man
18:36:06 <jeevan_ullas_> lol
18:36:09 <lwade> great, he's not listening so why not
18:36:20 <shaon> :P
18:36:21 <hspencer> lol
18:36:23 <hspencer> i am listenin
18:36:27 <hspencer> i was takin my vitamins
18:36:33 <lwade> #info networking modes and Eucalyptus networking is in need of some documentation and extra how-to's
18:36:36 <lwade> heh
18:36:50 <lwade> hspencer, you are knowledgeable in this area, absolutely
18:37:07 <lwade> do you have any ideas of what would be useful for explaining the general topic (and troubleshooting) ?
18:37:07 <shaon> well, I need more understanding on networking
18:37:16 <shaon> go ahead hspencer :D
18:37:47 <lwade> perhaps something on how the CC handles IPtables rules when an instance is launched?
18:37:57 <hspencer> yea, i can do that
18:38:00 <hspencer> its not a problem
18:38:05 <lwade> cool, thanks :D
18:38:12 <hspencer> so, like when dhcpd is started when an instance is started
18:38:17 <lwade> yeah that would be great
18:38:26 <hspencer> and when a bridge interface is created on that launch
18:38:27 <hspencer> yep
18:38:29 <lwade> user launches instance, how is the networking setup managed ?
18:38:35 <lwade> awesome
18:38:46 <hspencer> i can do this for 2
18:38:49 <hspencer> for Euca 2
18:38:52 <hspencer> for Euca 3
18:38:56 <hspencer> i haven't looked  at it yet
18:38:57 <gregdek> (someone ping me when we get to open floor pls)
18:38:59 <lwade> #action hspencer to take our first networking article, focusing on networking config in 2.X
18:39:03 <lwade> ok gregdek
18:39:08 <lwade> thanks hspencer
18:39:11 <hspencer> yep
18:39:19 <lwade> It's no hugely different in 3.0 I guess
18:39:20 <lwade> not*
18:39:23 <lwade> so we can update
18:39:31 <lwade> awesome
18:39:45 <lwade> that'll be valuable
18:39:46 <lwade> ok
18:39:48 <lwade> next item then
18:39:50 <lwade> .proj 102
18:39:51 <eucabot|test> lwade: Issue 102 (New): Show the tracking of migrated wiki articles to new kbase in redmine (or an a-n-other external place) - https://projects.eucalyptus.com/issues/102
18:39:53 <lwade> uh oh
18:39:53 <eucabot|test> Please use http://pastebin.com/ instead of pasting multiple lines into the channel.
18:39:59 <lwade> lwade has made no progress here
18:40:19 <lwade> #action lwade to publish the wiki migration doc, share it in files/docs section of redmine and link into ticket
18:40:29 <lwade> #info this doc will help us co-ordinate wiki migration
18:40:37 <lwade> ok
18:40:39 <lwade> next
18:40:42 <lwade> this is another one for hspencer
18:40:43 <jeevan_ullas_> community wiki on open ?
18:40:56 <lwade> well, that I discussed with hspencer I should say
18:41:04 <lwade> jeevan_ullas, yes
18:41:25 <lwade> #info community wiki is here: http://open.eucalyptus.com/participate/wiki/community
18:41:26 <jeevan_ullas_> yeah some real old stuff on the community wiki just checked the ubuntu-vm-builder page today
18:41:39 <jeevan_ullas_> was mentioning ubuntu karmic
18:41:52 <lwade> is ubuntu-vm-builder still current?  I think it's still maintained and all that, no ?
18:42:03 <jeevan_ullas_> not sure
18:42:29 <lwade> ok nm
18:42:37 <lwade> I'll make that an agenda item for another meeting
18:42:54 <lwade> #info would be great to ramp up the wiki migration / clean-up, lets cover in another meeting
18:42:56 <lwade> ok
18:42:57 <lwade> last issue
18:43:00 <hspencer> lwade, don't think the Images sutff on the Community Wiki is being maintained
18:43:10 <lwade> hspencer, yes you're right
18:43:16 <hspencer> first attempt at migrating this was here
18:43:28 <hspencer> open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/linux-image-management
18:43:38 <lwade> #info http://open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/images isn't maintained
18:43:47 <lwade> not authorized .... ?
18:43:49 <hspencer> open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/linux-instance-management
18:43:50 <hspencer> yea
18:43:57 <hspencer> you gotta use your forum creds
18:44:00 <hspencer> you gotta log in first
18:44:02 <hspencer> then you can see it
18:44:04 <lwade> yup, have logged in
18:44:05 <lwade> :S
18:44:08 <hspencer> its in draft form
18:44:12 <hspencer> not all the links are active
18:44:20 <hspencer> this is what i was pinging jeevan_ullas about earlier
18:44:24 <jeevan_ullas_> yeah
18:44:31 <hspencer> cause he responded to the email thread
18:44:39 <lwade> ok, so basically I'm doing something wrong still ?
18:44:41 <jeevan_ullas_> not authorized right
18:44:52 <hspencer> so did you refresh?
18:44:54 <hspencer> hmm
18:44:55 <lwade> yup
18:44:56 <hspencer> lemme look at it
18:44:58 <hspencer> hold on
18:44:59 <jeevan_ullas_> yep
18:45:01 <jeevan_ullas_> ok
18:45:08 <lwade> anyway, we can come back to that
18:45:25 <lwade> #info image management is a big topic, further discussions needed as to where to keep it
18:45:31 <lwade> docs that is
18:45:33 <lwade> ugh
18:45:39 <lwade> #info ^ docs for image management
18:45:48 <lwade> how do we relate these to support portal etc.
18:46:05 <lwade> ok, anyhow, last issue
18:46:15 <lwade> .proj 73
18:46:16 <eucabot|test> lwade: Issue 73 (New): Cloud Design - Storage Hardware Purchasing Guide - https://projects.eucalyptus.com/issues/73
18:46:24 <lwade> hspencer and I talked about this the other day
18:46:37 <lwade> I've taken ownership of it, was going to write something
18:46:44 <lwade> mind if I solicit your help on that one hspencer?
18:46:55 <jeevan_ullas_> i hope it will keep the storage requirements which might come in with eucalyptus 3 and HA
18:46:59 <hspencer> sure
18:47:01 <lwade> yes
18:47:08 <hspencer> jeevan_ullas
18:47:10 <hspencer> thats the problem
18:47:16 <hspencer> Walrus shouldn't be an issue
18:47:16 <lwade> #info storage requirements should be built into Issue 73 doc, where available
18:47:17 <hspencer> but right now
18:47:20 <hspencer> HA for SC
18:47:24 <hspencer> is only if you have a SAN
18:47:31 <hspencer> that is EQL or NetApp
18:47:54 <shaon> lwade: another very important thing, purchasing guide
18:47:57 <jeevan_ullas_> yeah intact i was not able to try anything other than DRBD because of that
18:48:01 <jeevan_ullas_> infact
18:48:15 <hspencer> yep
18:48:29 <jeevan_ullas_> hspencer: maybe we can ask Tybstar or someone to give some pointers or notes?
18:48:30 <lwade> oooh can of worms
18:48:33 * lwade nods
18:48:41 <lwade> SE's are interested in this kinda stuff
18:48:46 <lwade> they need it to explain how things work to customers
18:48:49 <jeevan_ullas_> we can definitely ping them once we have a draft ready
18:49:04 <lwade> ok, so maybe we should rename these
18:49:09 <hspencer> k, i went ahead and published open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/linux-image-management
18:49:17 <lwade> "Purchasing guide" becomes "Design Guide"
18:49:21 <lwade> which includes purchasing stuff
18:49:32 <lwade> shaon, yup, we need to push one of these into the water and see if it floats
18:49:50 <lwade> hspencer, is the plan for that content to be static?
18:49:56 <lwade> the links behind are dynamic etc. ?
18:50:06 <lwade> because we could just have a placeholder in the kbase
18:50:07 <jeevan_ullas_> hspencer: thanks. it works now
18:50:19 <hspencer> there is old content there
18:50:57 <lwade> #action lwade to rename storage and service purchasing guides to design guides, which include purchasing ideas
18:51:13 <lwade> ok, that's all our tickets, I think we want to get to open forum
18:51:23 <jeevan_ullas_> lwade: also check internally who knows we might already have something which we can just open up
18:51:32 <lwade> agreed
18:51:35 <hspencer> this one is published as well
18:51:35 <hspencer> http://open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/linux-instance-management
18:51:36 <lwade> alas I'm not sure this is the case
18:52:00 <hspencer> jeevan_ullas: i will reply to the email thread and move it to community and images
18:52:07 <lwade> question:
18:52:15 <lwade> where are these links coming from?
18:52:19 <lwade> I mean they are *really* hard to find one the site
18:52:20 <jeevan_ullas_> hspencer: that would be great
18:52:24 <lwade> unless you handed me the direct URL
18:52:39 <hspencer> well, they aren't
18:52:44 <hspencer> because they are in draft form
18:52:52 <hspencer> k
18:52:55 <lwade> ok
18:52:57 <hspencer> so this is the history
18:53:00 <lwade> so they just remain hidden
18:53:01 <lwade> ?
18:53:12 <hspencer> we came up with these to help drive the image and instance management front
18:53:17 <lwade> aaaaaaah
18:53:21 <hspencer> when Eucalyptus 3.0 documentation came out
18:53:31 <hspencer> it was suggested that we hold off
18:53:41 <hspencer> becasue Eucalyptus 3.0 has documentation for images
18:53:46 <lwade> #info instance and image management team are working hard on docs too, lets link up
18:53:47 <hspencer> and we didn't want to conflict
18:54:01 <hspencer> and put information that wasn't in 3.0 docs
18:54:02 <lwade> ok I see
18:54:10 <hspencer> thats why they were this way
18:54:19 <lwade> so do you think there would be any objection to moving these landing pages into the user portal
18:54:22 <lwade> ?
18:54:26 <hspencer> not sure
18:54:29 <lwade> since it's static in terms of "go here for more info" ?
18:54:37 <hspencer> i haven't seen the Eucalyptus 3.0 images guide yet
18:54:37 <lwade> or are there other plans ?
18:54:38 <hspencer> have you?
18:54:40 <lwade> no
18:54:42 <lwade> lol
18:54:47 <lwade> I didn't know there was one
18:54:49 <lwade> tbh
18:55:04 <hspencer> me neither
18:55:11 <jeevan_ullas_> same here guys
18:55:13 <lwade> #action lwade to create a ticket for instance and image management docs link-up
18:55:14 <hspencer> tbh, you have more Euca 3 experience than i have
18:55:15 <hspencer> lol
18:55:19 <lwade> gotta track this
18:55:25 <lwade> some dots need joining
18:55:25 <hspencer> k
18:55:45 <jeevan_ullas_> it would be more clearer once the email thread comes out and we start doing the brain storming
18:55:46 <lwade> #info appears to be some super secret squirrel images guide being worked on, will hunt this down
18:56:02 <lwade> ok, this email thread is an announcement  from you hspencer about these two pages?
18:56:10 <jeevan_ullas_> mull: has made lot of progress lately with image building
18:56:12 <hspencer> yep
18:56:14 <lwade> ok
18:56:22 * gholms tried building some el6 images with virt-install and hit a nasty bug
18:56:37 <hspencer> yea, the image management doesn't have boot from ebs information
18:56:40 <lwade> #info hspencer to announce these pages, we can continue discussions here
18:56:40 <jeevan_ullas_> i remember FAQ when i see gholms  :)
18:56:44 <hspencer> yep
18:56:45 <gholms> Heh
18:56:45 <lwade> yup
18:56:47 <lwade> next!
18:56:50 <lwade> FAQ!
18:56:53 <mull> gholms, what did you hit?
18:56:54 <lwade> #topic Eucalyptus FAQ
18:56:58 <gholms> hspencer: The EBS image was what I was trying to create.
18:57:00 <gholms> mull: One sec
18:57:03 <mull> k
18:57:03 <lwade> gholms, can you explain your notion of the FAQ ?
18:57:11 <lwade> and your vision for this super-useful service, please
18:57:16 <gholms> mull: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=771912
18:57:34 <mull> awesome
18:58:11 * gholms is typing; hang on
18:58:14 <lwade> ok :D
18:59:00 <gholms> I would like to have a wiki page where one can quickly add common questions and answers that we can point on in forums and IRC.
18:59:33 <lwade> ok
18:59:40 <lwade> open for everyone to update?
18:59:43 <gholms> The harder it is to add stuff to it, the less useful it will be.
18:59:45 <hspencer> just sent email to open and images
18:59:46 <hspencer> of the thread
18:59:50 <lwade> ty hspencer
18:59:58 <gholms> Asking people to log in is sensible.
19:00:02 <hspencer> with the links of the image and instnace management
19:00:24 <lwade> #info FAQ would be useful for everyone
19:00:29 <lwade> I think we're all agreed on that
19:00:33 <lwade> #agreed FAQ ftw
19:00:41 <gholms> But having every change go through a Eucalyptus employee or something will only make it stay out of date.
19:00:50 * lwade agrees
19:00:50 <hspencer> but yea, the reason why those links are linux focused is because i didn't know if Windows would be put into Open
19:00:59 <hspencer> at the time these pages were created
19:01:09 <gholms> Now I'm not sure what sort of hoops one has to jump through to change an article on asisstly.
19:01:14 <lwade> gholms, do you think the user portal would be prohibitive
19:01:17 <lwade> ah ^
19:01:21 <hspencer> but i fgiured it would give us flexibility to add windows focuses docs
19:01:21 <lwade> yes
19:01:34 * gholms probably misspelled that
19:01:45 <lwade> it's a very good question
19:02:01 <lwade> I'm hoping that in the recent assistly updates there is a role / profile for a contributor of some kind
19:02:01 <gholms> If I have to go to you to add things to the F.A.Q. I just won't bother with it.
19:02:19 <lwade> e.g. make it so they can have an account and add stuff
19:02:23 <lwade> hrrrm
19:02:32 <gholms> Can I use my forum account to add stuff?
19:02:46 <lwade> if the forum is with our LDAP backend
19:02:48 <lwade> then yes
19:02:53 <lwade> Assistly will be integrated here
19:03:09 <lwade> *but* that doesn't necessarily mean you'll have permission to create an article
19:03:17 <gholms> ...
19:03:24 * lwade needs dstagnaro here
19:03:41 <gholms> Will the wiki still be around forever?
19:03:51 <lwade> no, I don't think so
19:04:14 <gholms> So if I want to write a helpful tutorial on $task where should I put it?
19:04:17 <lwade> so assistly has the notion of Agent / Admin and Reporting
19:04:28 <gregdek> I second gholms's question.
19:04:34 <gregdek> We need a dead-easy answer for that Q.
19:04:42 <gholms> This is exactly what a wiki is for.
19:04:43 <jeevan_ullas_> we should have the ability to have a page on assistly with versioning of-course which is editable by anyone
19:04:43 <lwade> gholms, this is why I'm concerned about whether we can ensure the user portal is "open enough"
19:04:49 * lwade agrees
19:05:06 <lwade> potentially this could be RLY BAD
19:05:12 <lwade> if Assistly doesn't give us enough flexibility here
19:05:14 <gregdek> If assistly allows wiki-like functionality to any user, that's fine -- but we need to see Assistly soon. :)
19:05:26 <gregdek> Are we doing public demo yet?
19:05:32 <lwade> dstagnaro did it last week
19:05:36 <lwade> well
19:05:42 <gregdek> Does that mean it's Open For Bidness?
19:05:44 <lwade> I say demo. more of an intro
19:06:01 <lwade> not yet
19:06:06 <gregdek> When? :)
19:06:07 <gholms> Functional enough to get some answers to this question?
19:06:17 <lwade> is anyone in SB, can they prod dstagnaro ?
19:06:35 <lwade> gholms, I really don't know, I assume a little too much with it as a product
19:07:17 <lwade> gregdek, I would like now but since Assistly is a customer support portal AND  kbase, it kinda takes them hand in hand
19:07:23 <lwade> iirc the LDAP integration is next on the list
19:07:26 <lwade> do you have the link btw?
19:07:38 <gholms> A knowledge base is not a wiki.
19:07:46 <lwade> indeed
19:07:58 <lwade> but it *might* have the capacity to enable wiki-like features
19:08:10 <gregdek> Well, we have the Projects site, which provides wiki-like functionality -- but only to people with accounts.
19:08:15 <lwade> but then, do we want it to?
19:08:23 <mull> lwade, I say no
19:08:32 <gregdek> Here's what I think:
19:08:33 <gholms> gregdek: Only to people with accounts *and* approval by project administrators.
19:08:38 <lwade> My concern is that, if we have a seperate wiki, how do we link wiki and kbase?
19:08:39 <gregdek> * wiki space for free editing;
19:08:57 <gregdek> * "link" to kbase == someone copies it over, makes it "official".
19:09:01 <mull> lwade, wiki docs eventually get vetted by eucalyptus people and rewritten in kbase
19:09:05 <gregdek> i.e. snapshots.
19:09:07 <lwade> good
19:09:13 <gregdek> Yep, +1 to mull.
19:09:28 <gregdek> But someone needs to own that process.
19:09:32 <lwade> this.
19:09:41 <lwade> this was sorta how the docs project spawned
19:09:43 <lwade> in these same discussions
19:10:03 <lwade> but I think the concern has been that user portal isn't open enough, yet we lack a good wiki space somewhere
19:10:10 <gregdek> Yep.
19:10:29 <lwade> for freehand stuff and incubating the cool docs
19:10:49 <gregdek> Honestly, we *can* pull stuff from anywhere that has a URL.  Google Docs, wiki space, blog post, anywhere.
19:10:57 <lwade> I think it would be really useful to clarify this
19:11:02 <lwade> yeah, agreed
19:11:26 <lwade> so, do we own the process of picking that fruit through here and are we agreed to that ?
19:11:29 * gregdek likes Google Docs more and more, tbh.
19:11:38 * lwade is the same
19:11:41 <gregdek> I think we should be in the business of:
19:11:53 <gregdek> 1. Encouraging people to write stuff;
19:12:08 <gregdek> 2. Linking somehow to everything that's been written;
19:12:16 <gregdek> 3. Cleaning up the best stuff and making it "official".
19:12:46 <gregdek> Stuff we can help with, but not necessarily mandate:
19:12:50 <lwade> in our initial brainstorming, we had a little picture: https://projects.eucalyptus.com/redmine/attachments/download/82/community_process_v1.png
19:12:54 <lwade> which isn't entirely correct
19:12:56 <lwade> now
19:12:58 <lwade> *
19:13:06 <lwade> ugh, hitting enter too quickly :S
19:13:11 <gregdek> * Provide project space for people who want to collaborate on doc writing, be it gdocs or projects or what have you;
19:13:20 <gregdek> Well, that's it.
19:13:35 <lwade> so it's still quite like that
19:13:35 * gregdek looks at community process png
19:13:47 <lwade> from what we're saying
19:14:05 <lwade> but I think clearly we need to look at where this collaborative wiki is going to be
19:14:09 <lwade> so we can start feeding this stuff in
19:15:30 * gregdek hrms.
19:15:48 <gregdek> We need a simple answer to the question:
19:15:58 <gregdek> How can I help right now, in 5 minutes?
19:16:16 <lwade> #info goals?  1. encourage people to write stuff, 2. we link all this stuff together, from whatever source 3. clean up really nice stuff and integrate with official docs 4. provide collaborative space for doc writing
19:16:19 <lwade> ok
19:16:24 <lwade> so, taking that example ..
19:16:34 <lwade> my first thought would be to put something in a wiki
19:16:38 <lwade> as a normal average joe user
19:16:58 <lwade> I have X piece of information, where can I share it:  wiki
19:17:40 <lwade> but, I would also be considering the user portal you see, since it's all nice and Eucalyptus branded, looks cool, etc.
19:17:51 <lwade> although wiki is easier to contribute to, within those 5 minutes
19:18:06 <lwade> does that make sense ?
19:18:26 * lwade appreciates we're overrunning, people don't have to hang around but I'll close meeting late
19:18:48 <gholms> Let me give you a little example:
19:18:53 * mull has rarely seen a portal that he thinks "looks cool"
19:19:03 <lwade> must be a personal thing then
19:19:05 <gholms> I wrote a little EC2 howto for Fedora a few months ago.
19:19:07 <mull> :)
19:19:09 <lwade> :D
19:19:27 <gholms> That went on Fedora's wiki.  It was simple, easy to link to, and I didn't have to ask anyone beforehand.
19:20:02 <gholms> Someone from the documentation group then thought it was good enough to go into the regular documentation, so he just grabbed it from the wiki.
19:20:19 <gregdek> Should we be setting up mediawiki?
19:20:21 <lwade> yes, this
19:20:23 <gregdek> Or fixing redmine?
19:20:32 <lwade> and I heard redmine was going away
19:20:36 <mull> gregdek, that's a really important question
19:20:42 <gholms> gregdek: Good question.
19:20:42 <lwade> so kinda thought "umm, where to now" ?
19:20:47 <gregdek> lwade: I have no idea if redmine is going away yet.
19:20:51 <lwade> righto
19:20:52 <jeevan_ullas_> guys red mine wiki powers are very less
19:20:54 <gregdek> But it's clear that redmine has issues.
19:21:08 <jeevan_ullas_> or intact i should say none?
19:21:10 <jeevan_ullas_> infact
19:21:13 <gholms> A Mediawiki instance is one flat namespace, which is easier to understand than Redmine's project spaces.
19:21:23 <gregdek> gholms: true.
19:21:24 <mull> whose decision is it to use redmine (or abandon it)?
19:21:26 <lwade> thing is, we need a wiki which has good documentation extensions, perhaps docbook of some kind
19:21:27 <jeevan_ullas_> is there any plugin or any thing in red mine? for a better wiki?
19:21:27 <gholms> On the other hand, Mediawiki administration sucks.
19:21:32 <gregdek> The spam problem with MW instances is getting intense, too.
19:22:03 <lwade> am I the only person that likes redmine from a project mgmt perspective?
19:22:08 <gholms> There are other wikis out there, but in any event the question is the same.
19:22:11 <gregdek> No, I think it's decent.
19:22:16 <gholms> From a project management standpoint Redmine is fine.
19:22:23 <lwade> ok
19:22:24 <gholms> It just makes a terrible knowledge base.
19:22:27 <lwade> yup
19:22:31 <gregdek> The *biggest* problem with Redmine is that it's a manual process to approve people to get started.
19:22:49 <lwade> yeah, which is the exact same issue we have discussed here
19:22:51 <gholms> Does Redmine have a way to let all accounts edit wiki pages?
19:23:03 <gregdek> Not out of the box, though there may be plugins.
19:23:06 * gregdek looks.
19:23:58 <lwade> is redmine that active as a project?
19:24:25 <gregdek> There's a surprising number of plugins.
19:24:32 <gregdek> http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/Plugin_List
19:25:12 <lwade> should we look to park this for the town hall?
19:25:22 <gregdek> Yeah. It's a complicated issue.
19:25:25 <lwade> it relates directly to docs but its complicated
19:25:43 <lwade> do we get the kind of numbers we want at the town hall meeting?
19:25:54 <jeevan_ullas_> lots of plugin for red mine wiki there on that link
19:25:55 <lwade> I think it's very late for guys in India / China no?
19:25:55 <jeevan_ullas_> thanks
19:26:01 <jeevan_ullas_> its 1am
19:26:07 <lwade> yeah :S
19:26:08 <jeevan_ullas_> who is from china
19:26:15 <jeevan_ullas_> its 3:30am in shangai
19:26:17 <lwade> no-one, that's true
19:26:19 <lwade> lol
19:26:19 <gregdek> No one I've seen in the community yet.
19:26:29 <gregdek> I think India+Europe are key.
19:26:36 <lwade> ok, so how can we move forward on this?
19:26:46 <jeevan_ullas_> town hall is at 3:30am IST
19:26:48 <mull> there's a redmine demo instance
19:26:56 <mull> I'm going to register and poke around the wiki
19:26:59 <mull> see how it looks
19:27:04 <mull> http://demo.redmine.org/account/register
19:27:09 <gregdek> I'll tee up some discussion points on the mailing list.
19:27:32 <gregdek> can you #action me?
19:27:49 <lwade> #action gregdek to kick off discussions about wiki and future of projects pages
19:28:16 <lwade> #info FAQ relates directly to wiki discussions, will track this issue
19:28:16 <gregdek> th
19:28:18 <gregdek> thx
19:28:23 <jeevan_ullas_> lwade: cool
19:28:36 <lwade> ok, well if we can revisit this through the lists and another meeting, that's good
19:28:55 <lwade> since we're so late, will move onto last call
19:29:03 <lwade> #topic last orders .......
19:29:09 <gregdek> that was what I wanted to discuss, so I'm good.
19:29:13 <lwade> 3
19:29:16 <lwade> 2
19:29:20 <lwade> 1
19:29:22 <lwade> 0.5
19:29:26 <lwade> #endmeeting