17:15:45 <mchua> #startmeeting 17:15:45 <eucabot|test> Meeting started Thu Feb 9 17:15:45 2012 UTC. The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:15:45 <eucabot|test> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:15:48 <mchua> #chair shaon gregdek 17:15:48 <eucabot|test> Current chairs: gregdek mchua shaon 17:15:57 <mchua> proceed. :) 17:16:07 <gregdek> 09:14:11 < shaon> Q1. why eucalyptus is using amazon api, not any other 17:16:12 <gregdek> 09:15:33 < gregdek> A1. Because AWS is way farther ahead than the others, and we believe it to be the most worthy of focus. We may support other APIs in the future, but we prefer to focus now on the best API, and that's AWS. 17:16:16 <gregdek> Reference 1: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/765 17:16:27 <shaon> Q2. how much would it cost if someone ask for euca support? 17:17:00 <gregdek> A2. call Euca for details :) 17:17:38 <gregdek> http://www.eucalyptus.com/about/contact 17:17:40 <shaon> okay, but an approx amount would help. I need to ans a lot of ppl and I am not even an employee of euca 17:17:56 <shaon> anyway, moving on 17:17:56 <shaon> :) 17:18:11 <gregdek> shaon: let me try to find a ballpark figure and get back to you. 17:20:50 <gregdek> shaon: ballpark figure, $2500/server/year 17:21:11 <shaon> Q3. basic euca installation does not give the real amazon flavor, I understand its the basic setup, but what are the third party apps (i think there are some) are there to make it complete? 17:22:06 <shaon> gregdek: okay, per server, means one setup? with unlimited nodes, or each node is one server? 17:22:10 <gregdek> shaon: for managing euca, you mean? 17:22:17 <shaon> yes 17:22:24 <gregdek> shaon: I believe that pricing is per NC. 17:22:56 <shaon> like dak419 told me some, like, scalr/membase, for support like amazon RDS 17:24:48 <gregdek> Ah, so those are apps that run *on* Euca. 17:24:49 * shaon is working on an amazon like web console, but he is too lazy :) 17:25:06 <gregdek> So for Euca management, popular choices: 17:25:11 <gregdek> 1. HybridFox; 17:25:17 <gregdek> 2. Rightscale; 17:25:20 <gregdek> 3. Enstratus. 17:25:43 <gregdek> There are others, but those are the big three. HybridFox is basically a Firefox plugin, as I understand it. 17:26:23 <mchua> #link http://code.google.com/p/hybridfox/ 17:26:33 <mchua> #link http://open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/ToolsEcosystem_Hybridfoxhttp://open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/ToolsEcosystem_Hybridfox 17:26:36 <mchua> er. 17:26:37 <mchua> #undo 17:26:37 <eucabot|test> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x2e72d50> 17:26:39 <mchua> #link http://open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/ToolsEcosystem_Hybridfox 17:26:46 <shaon> Q4. to give a IaaS service, of course we need a usage monitoring tool, how can eucalyptus help us? 17:27:06 <mchua> #link http://www.rightscale.com/ 17:27:20 <shaon> mchua: thanks, I will do that :) 17:27:32 <mchua> #link http://open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/RightScale 17:27:40 <shaon> this is just for my preparation :) 17:27:52 <mchua> #link http://enstratus.com/ 17:28:13 <gregdek> A4. there are hooks in Euca 3 for reporting usage, but I don't have details yet. They'll be in the docs when we release them (which, I hope, will be soon.) 17:28:21 <mchua> ...hm, can't find an open.eucalyptus page on Enstratus, but ok. 17:28:42 <shaon> gregdek: no support in euca 2? 17:28:55 * mchua isn't sure if there's a page where things like hybridfox, rightscale, etc. are listed all together 17:28:57 <gregdek> shaon: not that I'm aware. It's a new feature for E3/ 17:29:05 <shaon> oh, btw, I am going test euca 3 tonight or tomorrow for sure :) 17:30:12 <gregdek> shaon: w00t! 17:30:34 <shaon> ?? :( 17:30:50 <shaon> it's on grimm's blog 17:31:30 <gregdek> shaon: "w00t". Means excitement. :) 17:32:04 * shaon got scared 17:32:08 <gregdek> LOL 17:33:03 <shaon> Q5. in euca 2 and probably in euca 3 too, instances cannot be recovered once the node goes down, is there any solution? 17:33:36 <gregdek> Hmmm... EBS? 17:33:58 <gregdek> Boot from EBS is a new feature in E3, and can help with that problem, I *think*. 17:34:14 <obino> shaon: yep, instances are supposed to be spendible 17:34:53 <obino> HA is for the infrastructure: the app will still need to be designed with the cloud in mind to fully be HA 17:35:21 <obino> gregdek: yep, boot from EBS will help somewhat, but I am a big proponent of designing the app to have instances going down 17:35:28 <obino> it worked for netflix :) 17:36:27 <shaon> so obino, what's your suggestion? design the app so that it can help itself? 17:37:44 <obino> that's the best: EBS and Walrus are the persistent storages to be used to keep the states and backup 17:38:17 <obino> redundancy (multiple instances running at all times) is the way to survive instance failures 17:38:33 <obino> and if you have multiple zones, start instances on all zones 17:38:34 <shaon> yes, Walrus is works fine as a persistent storage 17:39:39 <shaon> obino: isn't that require more resources where in cloud we were supposed to minimize the use of resources 17:40:08 <shaon> just asking, I might be asked this kind of questions :( 17:40:38 <obino> HA wastes resources by design :) 17:41:28 <shaon> okay, that's an awesome point :) 17:42:47 <mchua> I'll ask the dumb question: "What are the alternatives to EuCa, and why would someone choose EuCa over them?" 17:43:13 <shaon> mchua: I swear, this is question I was going to ask :D 17:43:36 <gregdek> 1. Openstack. 17:43:39 <gregdek> Pros: 17:44:01 <gregdek> * Broad community supported by many companies; 17:44:04 <shaon> gregdek's keynote was full of this kinda contents :D 17:44:05 <gregdek> * Modular design. 17:44:09 <gregdek> Cons: 17:44:20 <gregdek> * Broad community supported by many companies; 17:44:25 <gregdek> * Modular design. 17:44:26 <gregdek> :) 17:44:38 <shaon> Lol 17:44:55 <gregdek> Openstack is much more a set of tools for building a cloud. Euca is cloud-in-a-box. 17:44:55 <shaon> now I am lost :P 17:45:15 <gregdek> And openstack, honestly, just isn't as far along. 17:45:28 <gregdek> 2. Cloudstack. 17:45:42 <gregdek> Good product, good UI. Integration with AWS isn't as good. 17:46:06 <gregdek> Honestly, I wouldn't choose either of those over Euca -- which is why I joined Euca and not those guys. :) 17:46:53 <gregdek> The argument has been made that both of those are "more open". Which was, admittedly, true for a while -- but no longer. 17:47:19 <shaon> opennebula? 17:47:35 <gregdek> I keep forgetting about open nebula. 17:47:35 <shaon> *open nebula 17:47:46 <shaon> :) 17:47:57 <gregdek> Again, more of a toolkit approach. 17:48:21 <shaon> too many components? 17:48:24 <gregdek> Honestly, I see openstack as more of a direct competitor to opennebula. 17:48:38 <gregdek> Not too many components -- just more flexibility about how you put them together. 17:49:05 <gregdek> Seems like openstack and opennebula are both good for the service provider market, and euca and cloudstack are more all-inclusive products for the enterprise market. 17:49:16 <shaon> yes, open nebula is more or less inspired by nebula, currently the cloud engine for openstack, AFAIK 17:50:50 <gregdek> So events meeting starts in 10 minutes, I gotta prep a bit. 17:50:52 <shaon> the euca presentation template, is it only for euca employees? if not, can I use it with my company logo in euca slides? 17:51:17 <gregdek> shaon: I grant you permission. 17:51:27 <shaon> thank you :) 17:51:44 <gregdek> We still need to figure out our trademark policy. In the meantime, I have the power. ;) 17:51:59 <shaon> :) 17:53:11 <gregdek> Any objection if we close this meetbot session, mchua ? 17:53:42 <mchua> #endmeeting